PubTalk - 6/2021: Mount St. Helens Revisited

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Title: Mount St. Helens Revisited: Lives Changed, Lessons Learned, and Legacies of the 1980 Eruptions

By Carolyn Driedger, USGS Hydrologist & Outreach Specialist

  • Mount St. Helens' eruptions had a disproportionately large influence on our understanding of volcanoes, hazards, and eruption response.
  • Unique circumstances, both locally and abroad, molded the responses to Mount St. Helens' awakening.
  • The eruptions provoked change not only within volcanology, but within allied professions.
  • A direct line exists between lessons learned at Mount St. Helens and current volcanic eruption planning efforts by the USGS.


Date Taken:

Length: 01:16:19

Location Taken: CA, US


Hello and thank you for joining us

for this month's public lecture.

My name is Mitch Adelson and I'll

be your host and moderator today

before I introduce our speaker.

I had several announcements to make.

Next month, speaker will be Amy Akal,

he research geologist or ecologist at

the Fort Collins Science Center who we

talking to us about invasive species so

please join us on July 22nd at 7:00 PM.

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we receive and we appreciate your

understanding advance and now it's

time to introduce you to our speaker.

Carolyn Reeder's career began

with EU at you began.

Today the career with the USGS began

in 1978 at the USGS Projects Office.

Glee theology in Tacoma,

WA with research on glaciers in

the Pacific Northwest and Alaska.

Many projects traveled the Glacier

Volcano scientific disciplines.

In 1986, she became along,

she began a long term study of glacier

related debris flows at Mount Rainier.

In that project,

lead to employment at the USGS

Cascades Volcano Observatory CVO,

but it was there earlier,

witnessing of the May 18th,

1980 eruption of Mount Saint Helens and

taking part in the response that set the

course for the remainder of her career.

This experience provided a

front row seat and reflect.

Front will see an observation reflection

about the roles of science in society.

At CEOs outreach coordinator

Caroline has worked at the

partnership with public officials,

emergency planners,

News Media Park interpreters and educators to

advance the cause of eruption preparedness.

Some earlier career choices

informed Caroline's current work,

including several years of teaching school

in the United States and in Kathmandu,


and also working for the

National Park Service.

Carolyn notes that are education

continues every day through involvement

in multi agency partnership projects

and she credits for historian father

for giving her the appreciation for

examining the long term impacts of

events such as the eruption of Mount

Saint Helens. Caroline.

The floor is all yours.

Hey, thank you very much *****.

Can you hear me alright? Yeah, OK.

Well, thank you everybody for being here.

It's it's either a rainy

evening or a very warm evening.

For many of us. Happy to be here

and share this evening with you.

Thanks for having me here today.

As noted, I'm a hydrologist

with the USGS Cascades Volcano

Observatory in Vancouver, WA.

That's the little Vancouver that has the

fenced for here in Southwest Washington.

Just a stones throw across the

Columbia River from Portland, OR,

so we're not the big gleaming

city in British Columbia with the

sea in the sky in the ski area.

Nearby Ann at CVO.

We study volcanoes to learn about

the eruptive potential of volcanoes.

We keep watch over them by monitoring them.

We communicate frequently with

public officials an with the general

public so that all of us can be

prepared for the next eruption.


melting Helens 1980 was a historic and

landmark event that happened in our nation.

No matter where we are tonight.

I think we can all appreciate

this extraordinary event.

And I bet that if this were an

on site presentation, I'd be.

I guess that maybe half the people

have the hands of the room would

go up with people noting that yes,

they had been there, they've witnessed it.

They would maybe work there,

or they had a family member who was involved.

So I want to thank will see

leg Mitch Edelson,

Christie Ryan Ryan Mcclymont for inviting

me organizing and publicizing this,

making sure that all the technical

wheels are turning correctly.


thanks also to many of you in the Bay Area,

especially who are long term

participants of this group.

Your involvement has made this lecture

series what a quarter century plus

now very successful and long lasting.

And it's actually a privilege for

any of US speakers to be apart of it.

And so this is also a good time

to acknowledge that the top notch

scientists have responded to and

studied Mount Saint Helens over the years.

We're not going to talk about

a lot of geology tonight.

We're talking about human context

of the eruptions, so,

but I do want to acknowledge them.

You know then I'll just mention

a few names and some of them

might be familiar to you,

and for every name that I mentioned,

I mean, there are probably you know,

100 other people who have been involved

from the United States around the world.

Some names you might recognize,

like Don Swanson and Steve Malone

and Bob Tilling and Chris Newhall,

Jim Vallance and Rocky Crandall,

and on Mullineaux and Jim Warren,

Pete Lipman, and you know,

still many people who continue

to follow the events.

Many people at CBO and beyond.

On the people who follow the

hydralogic events in the the the

ever changing landscape that can

continue this landscape that

continues to change even now.

41 years later people like

John Major and Kurt Spicer

and many many others.

OK, so you've heard that I started my

career at the USGS in a research Officer

project Office glass theology in Tacoma.

I chose a study of glaciers because

of all the geologic phenomena.

It just seemed to me that watching

glaciers was going to be probably the

most dynamic of Earth process that

I could actually win ever witness.

But I was wrong and witnessing the May 18th,

1980 eruption of Mount Saint Helens

and taking part in that response.

Uh, just was you know,

just packed years of educations,

years worth of education into,

you know, quick,

practical course and on how people

respond to volcanic eruptions

and how society responds.

And it really set the direction of

my work for the rest of Mycareer.

So as CBS Outreach Coordinator for

many years I work in partnership

with the groups mentioned you.

Lots of public officials,

lots of public officials,

the news media and educators.

How many target groups that can

help the USGS get its message

out about volcano hazards?

OK, so.

Over the years,

the geologic events have been pretty well

chronicled in books and websites and videos.

You probably heard a lot about pyroclastic

density currents and ignimbrites and such,

but there is also a real

human context to the story.

It's not so often discussed,

you know,

for instance,

you know what are the factors of the

time that influence the eruption

response and its effectiveness.

You know what contemporary

circumstances influence the outcome?

What were people thinking at the time?

What experience do they have

that led them to the decisions

that they ended up making?

You know it's really the

connectedness of people and events

in the personalities and their life

experiences and that predispose

the outcomes of a historical event,

and I consider the response to Mount

Saint Helens a historical event.

Now additionally,

I hope that today's talk will help

you understand with a little bit

greater clarity how science actually works.

It's not all done in a lab.

It's not all done.

Even intentionally office human intuition.

It's the mix of personalities and

the coordination that takes place.

You know some March of previous

events and I respond to you unique

opportunities that arise sometimes

is just plain luck.

So there are many ways in which the

outcomes of eruption response can happen,

so therefore it's really our job

to utilized previous knowledge and

to build a vision for the future.

How we can best respond to a

volcanic eruption so will look at

mounting Helens events as part of

a long an ongoing continuing.

Everything that the way that the

response happened in 1980 was a

result of what happened before and

what we're doing now will influence

the responses for future eruptions.

And so let's first of all,

let's say,

let's look at some events that

influence or cyantific eruption

response and and the collaborations

and communication that happened.

After that.

We will look at how scientists and some

J in some adjacent excuse me will

look at how scientists and people

in some adjacent professions were

impacted in Mount Saint Helens had

not just change the scientific world,

it changed other other professions as well.

And then I'm going to show photos

and pictures of my experiences,

and I say my experience is that

of myself as well as my my glass

theology colleague Mindy Brugman, who.

Practice with them May 17th and May 18th.

It kind of set the stage for transition

from glacier studies to that of volcanoes.

OK, and so first it's

important to recognize that.

How people how people author human time

have experienced volcanic eruptions,

whether it be 79 AD or eruption,

is viewed by any culture.

It's a really big deal.

You know your options can happen only once

a generation or every few generations,

and so in every culture it

tends to be remembered either

in oral or written accounts.

The native people living here in

the Pacific Northwest left us with

some amazing stories of volcanic

eruptions in in their own words.

Perhaps they were the first

to warn future generations.

Some of the first outreach products

might have been their oral traditions

that were both very personal.

Very pointed, very descriptive.

Uh, so some of those counts are

interesting to us to even today.

Now let's just put yourself in

the mind of one of those ancients

who witnesses a volcanic eruption.


just imagine that ashes rising into

the sky and the lava is flowing

down the side of the volcano.

That eruption is basically

a sensory overload.

It imagine the smell of sulfur,

the site of the actual love.

This sounds, explosions.

The feeling of the heat in

the grittiness of the ash.

All these things are major

aspects of volcanic eruptions.


sorry bout that.

There's often a lot of cymbala G

associated with volcanic eruptions.

You know the land seems stable,

but then it goes through big

changes and magma is rising

from the bowels of the Earth.

It's uncontrollable and very often it

causes harm and there's a thought that

maybe somebody did something wrong.

So we have a better understanding of

volcanoes today then many years ago,

but I like to think that in my

communications with the public that some

of the same visceral reactions are early.

People have are experienced by people

today and that affects our approach

and how we talk about eruptions.

So there's a little bit of an offbeat book

by Alan Weltzien exceptional mountains.

It's a cultural history of the cat

of the Pacific Northwest volcanoes,

and he had some interesting things to

say about Pacific Northwesterners and

a relationship to Cascade Volcanoes.

He says the cascade volcanoes,

like green leaning weight magnets,

that pull crowds to their slopes,

and he knows that each cascade volcano.

It has its own tributary region

of population.

So the regions that use their

approximate volcano to actually brand

the identity of their community and.

You know we get these volcanoes actually

give a region a civic and personal identity.

I've heard it said that these volcanoes

are the spiritual and cultural

icons of the Pacific Northwest.

So you know at first they just

appear like they are on the horizon.

It looks like I'm Rose Sentinels

standing on the horizon,

and if you fly westward to Western

Washington, Oregon, Portland,

OR which is common for me, you know,


I know that I'm almost home when I see

those Sentinels on the horizon and they

just they do seem very remote, but.

Actually they are right in

the middle of our lives,

because when there is an eruption from

one of them they will affect everyone and.

Not just people close to the volcano,

but in the entire region,

and you know,

and eventually resonating across the nation.

And those are all factors that

we need to consider when we

talk to people about volcanoes.

Is that there's a very you know

emotional attraction to them.

So let's put mounting Helens response

in perspective a little bit and

look at some of the history of it.

The history of the responses really

began decades before the eruption of

Mount Saint Helens in a couple of ways.

First of all,

we had volcanoes erupting in Hawaii.

We had eruptions at Kilauea

as well as at Mana, Loa,


and so we had good scientists working

there for many years trying to understand

the best ways to monitor those volcanoes.

Understand how volcanoes work and those are

for the most part nonexplosive volcanoes,

and so people were employing methods

that for that were appropriate

for non explosive volcanoes.

Here in the Pacific Northwest,

we had some USGS researchers

studying just doing.

During the first iteration of

mapping at Cascade Volcanoes and

surrounding terrain and for example,

Rocky Crandall was one of them.

Is wait Rick Randall's full name

but known many years is rocky,

Rocky was tasked back in the 1950s

with mapping the glacial rock

layers downstream of Mount Rainier.

And he spent a lot of years with this.

He was a very good field researcher,

very careful researcher.

He was looking at how those

deposits had arrived in place and he

notice something really peculiar.

He said it was amazing because normally

you would expected that a volcano.

Excuse me that a glacier would

plaster the rocks on the valley walls

as well as on the valley floors.

That's what you would expect to

see from Ice Age or later glaciers.

But that's not what he was saying.

He was noticing something very different.

Who's noticing that this these rocks

look like they flowed into place,

and that's just didn't make a lot of sense.

He and others in the United States,

other scientist volcano scientists

did not have that experience of

seeing a mudflow or a lahar.

He did seek alternative explanations,

and like he tries just trying to

understand what was going on.

He's told us that you know for many

years he wondered about this and

wondered if you know what could

have caused this this.

Layer to be in place that looking

like it flowed into place and then he

said it was actually in on July 25th,

1953 and he marked the moment in

his field notebook that you know,

maybe there was a new idea.

Maybe this these head float into place.

These deposits head float into place

and it was actually a mudflow that had

was the source and he didn't really

understand what the source might have been.


you know felt like following the

bread crumbs.

Upvalley he reached Mount Rainier

and realized looking at the rocks as well,

that this was from a massive debris

avalanche in lahar from Mount Rainier

volcano and that insight at Mount Rainier,

just north of Mount Saint Helens,

help us to understand one of the

many hazards at Mount Saint Helens.

Now of Rocky Crandall and his is

close colleague Don Molino were

working somewhat simultaneously on

two volcanoes and maybe more had

a lot to do busy people and so in

Mount Saint Helens they were they

notice some interesting things.

You know.

For one thing they realize that

the volcano didn't have many much

vegetation growing on it.

They realize that eruptions had

happened relatively recently and

with great frequency.

And they realized by again following

that this time the airborne bread

crumbs that the ash that they found

on the slopes of Mount Rainier,

the South, southern slips Mount Rainier,

actually originated back at the

Mount Saint Helens.

And that was just amazing.

So they were able to look at the frequency.

The approximate dates when the volcano

had erupted and they realize that,

wow, we need to inform people so.

In February of 1975,

they wrote a an article in the journal

Science about Mount Saint Helens,

an it was an accompanying press release

in February, February 27th, 1975.

It so that dormant mounting Helens will

erupt again and that it may erupt again,

perhaps before the end of the century.

Now that was 1975.

Remember that a lot of people

quote 1978. They did write

a hazard assessment in 1978.

Two years before the eruption that

noted basically the same thing,

but this was their first sight

science article about it.

Then in March, less than one month later,

I think it was about three weeks later.

Increase steaming by an order of

magnitude began at Mount Baker volcano,

up by the Canadian border.

This was actually quite amazing because the.

This this large and there's a

lot of snow and ice that melted.

It was, but mostly it was an

opportunity for scientists of many

disciplines to come together and

talk and get to know one another.

You know a sensibly belt Mount Baker.

There was a rocky crandall and there was

done mullineaux these strategic graphers who

studied the layers of previous eruptions.

There was Don Swanson, who was who

looked at volcanoes in many aspects.

There was Mark Meyer,

the Glaci Ologist who was looking at it.

There was Steve Malone,

the seismologist there was David Frank,

who looked at the Thermo Dynamics

and an others as well.

So I've actually interviewed

some of these people and asked,

you know,

well what did it mean that you were

all working together five years

before Mount Saint Helens erupted.

Steve Malone told me that UW seismologist

that basically this was a dress

rehearsal for Mount Saint Helens.

Unknown at the time you understand this,

was the first USGS response to heightened

volcanic activity and the continuous

US since Lassen Peak erupted in 1917.

Is a great time for introductions.

It was an opportunity to recognize also

how controversial a closure can be when

you try to close off the recreational

area in a region where people are

perhaps pretty independent already,

there can be major implications,

and of course,

now we know from many many eruptions

later looking at them around the world

that every volcanic crisis turns into a

little bit of a societal crisis as well.

Right, so that was very

fortuitous that those people met.

There were other influences as well.

There were some that came from

the Caribbean and you know.

The world of vulcanology.

Study a volcano.

Science is relatively small community.

It was even smaller back

in the 1970s and 1980s.

Everybody talked together and fortunately

we had a a good person at the Smithsonian,

Richard Fisk, **** Fisk, who?

Attended some of these

international volcanic eruptions,

so consider that in Guadalupe

volcano in the Caribbean in 1976.

The scientist had a lot of issues

that they had ended up dealing with

with coordination among themselves

and communication with many others

among themselves and with others.

So here's a here's a little

bit of the stat list here so.

As this eruption loomed.

There was no coordination among scientists.

It was uncontrolled news media access area.

There was minimal pre eruption

monitoring was very slow.

Build up a back of volcanic activity

so people were getting restless.

Although it did threaten

some some violent activity.

There were imagine that your 2025

scientists and multiple scientific

teams giving different interpretations

of what might be happening.

And then the journalists all had

unlimited access to all these

different scientific groups.

Throw into that the fact that as a.

As some additional analysis of the

of the volcanic rocks were made,

it was determined that we might

have a very explicit eruption,

and so there was a very controversial

evacuation of 77,000 people.

And anytime you evacuate people,

you're looking at a very difficult situation.

Now you're now you have crowd control

as well as Volcano control to address.

1979 The nearby island of Saint

Vincent the the another eruption

threatened an for this situation.

The threat was a little bit more apparent.

There was better coordination.

There was a successful evacuation.

Here's a stat sheet on it that.

Now everybody had looked at

what happened in Guadalupe.

Recognize that you know Aquada Lupe,

lots for Duluth, the the.

This scientist this dispute between

scientists actually became the principle

news media story an nobody in 1979,

one of that that happened at Saint Vincent.

So maybe they overreacted a little bit at a.

There had been in 1971 eruption there,

so the populace was a little bit

more believing that additional

eruption could happen, there was,

uh, you know, quick,

pretty quick buildup of activity,

but there was only one coordinated Cyantific

team, and so they gave one interpretation.

It was presented through

scientific consensus.

It was very straightforward.

Interestingly enough, though,

only the governor was allowed to talk,

and the governor relayed the science

information from the scientist to the

journalist he spoke for everybody.

So there was single stream of information.

And nobody was given

access to the Hazard area,

so nobody was completely happy with this.

Seems an overreaction.


One reporter did threaten to blow

the whistle and say that there

was a cover up going on and the

governor just simply deported him.

Now in the United States we were

watching this, you know, nineteen 7679?

What were we doing?

We're watching a hostage crisis.

We were watching the you know,

participating in the Bicentennial

and the United States in 1976,

but the scientists were watching

an by the time 1980 rolled around.

Everyone in the scientific community

was was thinking about what had

happened at these two volcanoes

and realizing that neither was

really ideal for how we would deal,

how we would communicate during eruption.

In the United States.

OK, let's move out of the Caribbean.

Let's come back to her.

Maybe our favorite part of the

planet on the West Coast and

go to Mount Saint Helens.

There there it is in all its

beauty of over Spirit Lake.

It was a favorite place for recreation

and had been for many decades.

The public officials maybe didn't

recognize fully the hazards that were there.


OK. And I should mention also that in 1978.

Uh, with the hazard assessment for

mounting Helens that had been released.

Rocky Crandall and others.

Did carry it around to a public

officials in South West Washington and

at the state level and told him about

this hazard an everyone said oh great.

Thank you, you know,

thank you for this information.

What is a pyroclastic flow?

OK well thanks.

Will deal with this when we need

to and they open their metal

filing cabinets and filed the plan.

So that was kind of interesting so.

Let's look at the stat sheet for

Mount Saint Helens in 1980 as people

are recreating down at the base and

there was no place based Volcano

Observatory in the Cascade Range.

It was really a minimal amount of

communication with public officials.

Minimal volcano monitoring in the

Cascade Range and and no valid

emergency plan.

It was, you know,

well exercise,

no interagency communication plan and.

No community education.

Basically the science and the

scientific disciplines were

somewhat siloed one from the other.

This seismologist worked together in

the defamation group is and on and on.


So what were we the people thinking in 1980?


we were mostly concerned with some

pretty depressing news that was

happening in the spring of 1980 and,

you know,

we had the rescue that the aborted

rescue mission to collect US

hostages held being held in Iran.

We had a major in an uncontrolled

influx of refugees from Cuba and

it was a very political issue and

maybe as much as anything everyone

was concerned with the TV show.


and they're wondering who had shot Jr.

So it came as a little bit of a

welcome diversion that there was

a new and exciting drama that was

coming when people heard about

Mount Saint Helens.

The March 20th,

1980 is is commonly given as the

date when Mount Saint Helens awaken

with a flurry of earthquakes.

Although we look back on March

16th and we can see that there were

earthquakes or maybe questionable is

melting Helens related at that time?

UW University of Washington

Seismology Steve Malone says this

was a time that we were just living

on adrenaline when preparing for this

talk and some others presentations.

I went back and interviewed

Steve and you know,

half dozen more others from that era.

I he told me that,


you know there's a whole Side Story

that comes with Steve Malone and maybe

that will be for another telling,

but overall,

you know there's a lot of

coincidences that happened.

He had just ordered a lot of seismographs.

Excuse me seismometers that he was

planning to set out elsewhere in

the Cascades, Washington and Oregon.

The 1st March 1st the the first of

the relay data. Seismometers went on line.

Although at Mount Saint Helens,

we still had a,

you know as an old time seismograph

seismometer that needed to

have its its record change

from time to time.

So activity with it was fast and furious,

and I actually remember that afternoon

of March 20th because Steve Malone,

knowing my supervisor Mark Meyer because

they worked at Mount Baker together.

Yeah, he called.

Mark and Mark relayed the information to us.

He came walking down the hallway and said,

guess what? We have a series of

earthquakes that Mount Saint Helens.

It may lead to something and it may not,

but we're going to do all

that we can to help them.

We're going to offer them the

loan of equipment and personnel.

We will take.

Aerial photos will lend him

our knowledge of the area and

do everything that we can.

So there is in the lower left hand

corner is one of those early photos

taken by Austin Post or Bob Krimmel,

and this shows the crack that formed

across the creator on March 27th.

Actually split open in a in a pita

pit creator you see on the left.

OK, so now we've talked about how

some previous people's experience

and the meeting at Mount Baker and

the events in the Caribbean about.

Poor coordination and communication

or or excess? Troll, yeah.

Had happened and people had observed that.

And wondered how we would deal with an

eruption in the contiguous United States.

Well, so how did the threat of forest

fires in the Gifford Pinchot National

Forest prepare us for a volcanic eruption?

Fortunately, the Forest Service had a very,

very high value stand of old growth.

Cedar and Doug fir.

In within the forest boundaries and,

they treated that as a diamond treasure.

They did not want to see that

go up in flames.

Or the money that would be reaped by

by selling that so they were very,

very careful with creating an incident

command system of very efficient effective

command and control communication.

Everyone well trained and

knowing their roles.

Having a variable practice framework for how

they would deal with a forest fire and so.

When Mount Saint Helens

showed signs of activity,

Don Mullineaux, Rocky Crandall,

you know there's some among Bob

Christianson and many others.

Uhm, actually fit very well into their

system and the USGS scientists didn't have

a system for coordination and communication,

but the Forest Service did and we fit

in it somewhat like a hand in a glove.

Now, how did a crisis in Alaska

prepares for this eruption response?

Well, and we can go here to USGS.

Scientists David Johnston and he

had actually just been hired.

It was just beginning to his his first

stint as a full time employee of the USGS.

But in 1979 he had some

harrowing experiences.

Augustine volcano in Alaska.

And apparently he was on this island.

This volcanic island and the he was

supposed to be lifted off by helicopter

when the volcano threatened the volcano.

The helicopter couldn't make it there,

and so David was stuck there

for a couple of days.

It sounds like eventually the

helicopter lifted off the island,

but you know the the threat of it all and

you know the sound of tefra landing on

the roof of that metal metal roof type.

Very much influenced him,

and so he was very motivated.

He was personally and emotionally

motivated to speak about this eruption

or about a Russian potential.

And there you see him on the left

cospec device for measuring gases, Ann.

And then on the right you see him

with Jeff Renner and Jeff was a

another middle West Midwestern import.

David was from Illinois.

And Jeff was from.

Wisconsin and so Jeff has told

me that they just wanted a real

connection when they first met and

that was in 1975 at Mount Baker.

Here Jeff talked his KING5 TV

Seattle managers into letting him

go up to Mount Baker and learn all

that he could about volcanoes.

Which and Dave took the time

to tell him what a lahar was,

a pyroclastic flow.

What hell of all Cano work

and how they could measure.

You know how they could monitor a volcano,

and he gave Jeff Renner books to read,

you know, recommendations.

An actual copies I think. And so.

Jeff was just a natural to respond from

natural representative in the news media.

Respond effectively in spring of 1980.

Ann and to me that just shows the

power of getting to know the news

media in advance of a hazardous event

like a volcanic eruption because

Jeff could be part of the broader

communication plan to disseminate

accurate and good information to the

public and he was not the only one.

There were many others as well.

OK, so if we time went on

in 2 1/2 months later,

you know after times of earthquakes

times of no earthquakes that time during,

during which a bolt was growing more

than six feet today on the north side

of the volcano people were pondering how

long it would take for that to release

and what would happen when it did.

Good morning,

I'm 18 with no precursory activity.

We had a magnitude 5.1 earthquake

boom 832 in the morning.

The entire north side of Mountain St.

Helens slid away.

A lateral blast lifted from

the uncorked magma chamber,

an actually advanced across the

debris avalanche to the north.


Ash rose into the air and what

we call a Plinian column.

And that the ash rose to about

80,000 feet within 15 minutes

time and within hours we had a

lot of dewatering of the debris

avalanche and a anhar's moving down.


all sides of the volcano and the biggest

on the West side of the volcano.

So this was a big event.

That everyone was wondering about.

They were wondering how it would.

What would, what would go on?


and let's look at what happened

in society after after that and.

I look at some contemporary

accounts in newspapers and.

You know 41 years have gone by,

but it brings the feeling right

back when you read these accounts

and looking at this one preparation

for this presentation,

it hit home because it just

seemed very right on describing

the feeling it said that.

The the writers of that until two months ago,

in the memory of every living person

mounting Helens shimmering Appra Spirit Lake,

so does a ready symbol of benign and

beautiful nature in the Pacific Northwest.

The mountain never will symbolize

that again to those who have seen

the destruction that has been rot

or to the thousands whose lives

have been wrenched in these days,

that bright, peaceful,

and deceptive Sunday morning of May 18th,

1980. And.

It just seemed like at that time

it seemed like.

You know the what?

Everyone was in the Cold War era was fearing,

had happened.

It wasn't an atomic bomb,

but it was a bomb within the

lives of everybody in the region.

It wasn't just a matter of.

57 lives being lost, but it was the

the mental fragility and emotional

fragility of everyone who had

assumed this was a stable planet.

And something that was uncontrollable.

And that. Was unpredictable

seem unpredictable as well.

So everybody was on edge to some extent.

No, for the scientist,

the mood with you know.

The the whole array of emotions and

and intentions you know all at once.

There was amazement.

At what had happened.

There was. There was shock.

Maybe you know some of us

had been up at the volcano.

The date the evening before

many had worked there.

Anne had taken positions for observation

many times in the previous months.

There was a lot of sadness.

But it is also a recognition

that a lot of work had to

be done and recognition that

more eruptions were to come.

So in those days, weeks,

months, years, now, decades.

Since 1988, mounting Helens

has become the master teacher.

An ideal lab for volcano studies.

You imagine if the volcano

that you're trying to study and

then mount any mouth and you're

trying to study all of a sudden,

the guts are torn from it so you

can see the entire interior with

all the evidence of previous

eruptions laid out in the rocky

layers like pages of a book.

It's a fantastic learning opportunity.

This monitoring the volcano and an

analysis of the deposits lead to new

insights that are applicable to the

Cascades and it volcanoes around the world.

Many too many to enumerate here.

Alright, and then in response in May of 1982.

The USGS decided that it was time

to stop just gathering people from

Menlo Park and Denver and Hawaii.

Let decided to bring everybody to one place

and so it was not initially in this building.

We've only been here since 19 since 2002,

but it was. It was in small office

spaces and originally in the federal

building in downtown Vancouver,

where we gathered.

Now we have an observatory

of approximately 90 people.

There we are out front a year or two ago,

by the way, next year will be the

40th anniversary of USGS Cascades

Volcano Observatory and there will

be some commemorative activities,

so keep that in mind.

Something that happened very early

on was a scientist learned that

the necessity of working across

scientific disciplines and so.

It may be the best analogy for those

of you listeners who work in business,

for example, or that you know the.

Yeah, the the accounts work in one

place and the equipment developers

work in another place and you know

managers maybe somewhere else but.

In fact, it's much more useful

if you can all work together,

and so it is with bolka knology.

So we have Mark here with a stream

gauging site and Seth here with the

with the spider that has all kinds

of instruments on it and maybe a

little portable seismograph as well.

I'm not sure.

I think that might be Republic there in

this picture by Bill Rose, Michigan Tech,

looking during the field work,

looking at the edge of a avalanche of

hot rocking gas, a pyroclastic flow.

And here we have people out doing serving.

So when all these people can

work together and.

Look at the larger picture based on

the data that they have to give.

That's when we can get the best

assessments of what's going on.


the residence and people elsewhere around

the world gain a profound appreciation

for the destructive power of volcanoes.

So for example,

here is a bridge that was torn apart,

torn away.

I've seen this bridge being torn away.

Probably you have as well in

numerous video clips an now encased

in concrete like lahar deposit,

and people recognize it.

Volcanic ash lahars?

You know they're they're long term hazards.

You know,

for example,

that you know even today dredging

is still being considered.

Dredging went on for four parts

of many decades.

Now it's in the news that perhaps

we need to do more dredging to

get some of that lahar deposit

that's worked its way downstream.

We have to get that out of

the out of the river channel.

To stop flooding in the Kelso Longview area.

Volcanic ash sticks around for many

months and can cause a lot of disruption,

can be health and health issue,

but very first health studies regarding

volcanic ash were done in Eastern Washington,

Idaho, Montana,

after the Russian Mount Saint Helens.

By the way,

it's a big question,

what do you do with all that

leftover ash in Lahar settlement?

And if you drive up and down I5,

you can see some of this big dredging

piles in place where new ideas and

technologies that sparked a revolution

in volcano monitoring you know,

are that really effects our ability to

provide Volcano volcanic hazard warnings

if we are able to work efficiently,

we can get our data back bye.

Having it sent to us rather than

by are having to go and change.


Data loggers, whatever.

All the better.

Inside the studies that mounting

Helens and all volcanoes,

the Cascade Rangers lead to new insights.

Anet new generation hazard assessments

and certainly one of the people who

spent time the longest at mounting.

Helens has been my clan who you see in

the lower right corner of the big photo.

And Mike is he's.

He's probably done more to give us a,

you know, a full picture of what all

has happened in Mount Saint Helens over

the millenia then about not anyone and

then younger Heather right on the left,

and Kevin Scott looking at

deposits at Mount Rainier.

Pretty soon after the initial work

was done in Mount Saint Helens,

it was recognized that all we need to

do is look to the north and look to

the South and we could see volcanoes.

As far as the eye could go to see

and they need attention as well,

and it is quite likely that the same

process that happened at Middle St.


Could be hazards at other volcanoes as well.

That really said everybody to work.

K So understanding a volcano behavioral

into new kinds of hazard analysis,

for example,

we're now able to look at where

ash might travel by inputing NOAA

weather data into a model we can.

And assuming a certain amount,

ash will come out a volcano,

we can see where that Ashlyn will will go.

And we also have event trees

which were pretty much you know,

for the most part invented at Man played

with early on at Mount Saint Helens,

Chris Newhall being a lead on that.

So where you look at the you

look at possibilities,

you ask questions and you you look

at everything that's happening.

And then from there look at the pot.

The probability that.

Other behavior will evolve from

the eruption and it wasn't just

geologist and volcano scientist,

it was he was the ecologist and they

discovered there were many years.

Even today.

These they have their plots out there,


plots and measure the number

of plants and look at the plant

growth in types they discovered.

This really barren landscape quickly

transformed into a mosaic of new

and thriving plants and animals.

And perhaps most importantly,

mounting Helens really inspired a

new generation of volcanologist

and it really increased the

international scientific cooperation.

Now we would have people come to

Mount Saint Helens from abroad.

They would learn about our

volcano where they would bite it,

invite us to their eruptions and so

there was just this proliferation of

new knowledge about how to monitor volcanoes.

What happens during eruption

just overall in the Volcano

Disaster Assistance program.

But as an international,

an international group that is

headquartered at that the CBO

responded to more than about more

than 70 volcanic crisis worldwide

and that has really strengthened the

response to eruptions in about a dozen

nations and scientists and public

officials with the here in the Cascades,

we've formed these volcano hazard

working groups where we create a plan.

We exercise the plan and then we

modify the plan to make it better.

And these plans, these coordination

or response plans describe the roles

of all these different officials.

And here you can see one of our emergency

managers from the city of Puyallup.

Organize who is organized,

they any any evacuation at Lahar.

Evacuation drill for parts of the

Puyallup Valley and I think at

8000 schoolchildren were evacuated

in this drill in 2020, eighteen.

Right so between 2013 and the present,

the USGS, supported by the Office of

Foreign Disaster Assistance USAW,

have supported by national exchanges

where we bring officials from

Colombia and Ecuador to the United

States so they can study how we are

planning for an eruption response.

An we take public officials there in 1985,

there was a major eruption about

Adobe's volcano in Colombia,

where 25,000 people.

Lost their lives due to a lahar,

25,000 people and going to Columbia

and meeting with the people like this.

For example,

this gentleman who was the first one

to fly over the region of Armero.

This is cited the destroyed city.

He flew over early in the morning.

Listen to him talk really inspired all

of us as scientists an our partners in

Emergency Management to be ready for

eruptions here in the Cascade Range.

And we also try to increase awareness

by in taking a multi agency approach.

We work with targeted groups

of policy makers.

Community educators and news.

Media parks.

You know,

champions and communities

and they try to get them.

Get them the information that

they need so that we can all

work together and get consistent

messages about these volcanoes.

Course we had a boom again in

2004 and another eruption of Mount

Saint Helens that lasted for four,

3 1/2 years and we were by that time

we were a little more experienced.

We were able to handle what

happened within just another major

assault of news media.


I mentioned that in some adjacent

professions people were those

professions were affected as well.

Steve Malone noted that the

acceleration and equipment use.

And how these the what we learn in

Saint Helens is useful volcanoes

around the world was a career

defining moment for many people.

Retired emergency manager Bill

Loki told me that in Emergency

Management we can draw a Direct

Line from lessons learned and Mount

Saint Helens to our current volcano.

Hazard planning efforts at

other Cascade volcanoes.

Retired King News meteorologist

Jeff Renner told me that you know,

Mount Saint Helens reawakening.

The ultimate eruption in Patton.

Public fascination in that ongoing story

LED northwest journalism to evolve in

a way that encourage strong science and

environmental reporting for decades to come.

He said that it really they felt

like they had a real responsibility

to get the story right.

Retired Noah warning coordination.

Meteorologist for the National Weather

Service had been are told me that there

was no volcano code for aviators.

In 1980, so pilots were warned

about dust in the air,

which of course is a completely

different consistency from volcanic ash.

But the National Weather Service in the USGS,

now working close coordination

to inform pilots too.

About conditions an in variety of

ways during volcanic eruptions,

you know, in in 1982,

Congress finally acted to

preserve the Mount Saint Helens,

the unique volcanic landscape

since the 1930s,

people had been trying to

protect Mount Saint Helens,

and it was just very had been a tough row.

To HO and finally the interest

was there in 1980 and 82 we had

at the formation of Melting Hills

National Volcanic Monument.

So now there are many opportunities

for visits and learning.

They exist today.

Now I'm going to tell you a few

months for a few minutes and my

experience and that of my colleague,

Doctor Mindy Brugman,

and because Mindy's reason I was

there on May 17th on the north side of

Mount Saint Helens in the 1st place.

So Mindy was a grad student at Caltech

and she was studying mounting Helens.

She had been doing it even

before the volcano reawakened,

but now her work began a

new direction to look at.

The effect of a.

A warming volcano on the glaciers

on its side.

So Mindy asked for some help,

and she asked if I would be willing

to come down to Mount Saint Helens

and help her for a couple of days.

We went down on the morning of May 17th.

I guess the afternoon of May 17th.

Here's Mindy looking at a time

lapse camera setup at cold water to

observation site and there's myself

observing the time lapse camera

with the bulge in the four gram.

I think as glaci ologist we were not.

We were we didn't have a full.

Understanding of the forces

that might influence us at that

time if the volcano erupted.

Harry Glicken, who is directing the

volcano from the director's chair.

And minis examining the the place

theology offices laser Ranger that

she delivered earlier at the request

of our our manager Mark Meyer.

And the intention was to look at the

bulge and how much it was growing.

Here's David Johnston catching

up on field notes that afternoon.

I think this is the last picture

taken of him.

May 17th, around 9:00 o'clock in the evening.

Well, while we were still

sitting there talking David.

We had a lot of chit chat and

David said that you know,

I think this isn't the safest place to be

and I feel like I really need to be here.

Somebody needs to be here.

I'm going to. I need to stay here,

but we should have not too many people here.

This have as few as possible,

so why don't you Mindy and Carolyn Ann

Harry leave then come back and pick up.

Get it right on the helicopter

the next day and so.

Reluctantly we we put our gear

back in the car and we drove back

down to Vancouver and this is a

State Route 504 and you can see

mounting Helens is probably one of

the last pictures that was taken of

Mount Saint Helens in full form.

Late in the evening of May 17th.

And so we stated the the in in

Vancouver and we attended the

Sunday morning 7:00 AM meeting and

where everybody talked about what

activities they were going to do,

I remember one thing I had.

Dan Miller said that he was going to be

going up that day and he was going to.

Attend to see that perhaps a military

tank could be put up at Coldwater

Twos as a safety place of safety.

He drove up I5.

Mindy Brugman and I were a few

minutes behind him on our way

to Mount Saint Helens as well,

and somewhere between Law Center

and Richfield on Interstate 5,

Mindy and I notice a black cloud

forming on the north side of the

volcano and progressing northward.

It was moving up towards the

hills that Mount Margaret area,

moving a bleakly away from us.

There was an we did not know what it

was at 1st, and we finally realized.

We went back to Vancouver and

began addressing the news media.

Dan Miller would get the information

from people out in the field.

We would assemble it as talking

points and deliver.

It was a very sobering time and no food day.

And people said, you know.

**** Fisk was a Supriya Losophy

Adequada loop, and at Saint Vincent,

and he's going to give us some advice

on how we handle the news media.

So between ***** advice,

an are working within the structure

of the Forest Service.

We worked as best we could to

have a successful response.

These are just a couple of other photos

that I have of Mindy in the office,

and people Richard wait.

And keeps topple and gets done.

Swanson, the lower left hand corner.

OK, so as with these drivers on

I-5 we all had to learn to adjust.

You know,

from viewing volcanoes as benign

to features that could harm you.

Know from being isolated,

doing isolating,

monitoring to having full networks

full of rays of monitoring data

from scientists I looming in

our offices to working

in partnership to address societal

need and from isolation with emergency

managers to planning with them.

Now from news media avoidance to actually.

Working with the news media and educating

them, and from accepting an uneducated

public to educating that public.

There are lots of resources that you can go

to to learn more about Cascade volcanoes.

There's social media.

There is actually an update that

comes out every Friday that tells

what's going on in the Cascade Range.

Additionally, for the 40th anniversary,

we created a fact sheet. 10 ways.

Atmel Saint Helens changed

our world and its online,

and we also have a probably a

few 1000 copies to deliver.

Since most of our arms are

actually all of our on site,

40th anniversary events

were cancelled due to the.

Pandemic last year,

so if you want to learn more about this,

how mounting Helens change things,

take a look at that fact sheet.

Thank you and I hope that you enjoy

this and I hope you had a good evening.

Thank you Carol,

and that was that was a great talk.

We are now open for question and

answer portion of the lecture.

Haven't monitoring questions that

have come through and have captured

all similar ones together an I

will ask those out loud first.

First question from someone is on that day.

In March 1980, when your supervisor mark

came through down the corridor with news of.

Steve's phone call about the

waking of Mount Saint Helens.

Did your heart go into your

mouth knowing what was, uh,

what could what could lead

to total disbelief?

We were on the 8th floor of

the Pacific Bank building,


We later on were able to see

eruptions of Mount Saint Helens,

but on that rainy day with no

clouds in the sky and green being it

beating against the the the windows,

it seemed like an impossibility

and anyone also seem like well,

why would we be the ones privileged

to see this in our lifetime?

OK. Another question is when I visited

Seattle, I was amazed to see how

close Mount Rainier is to the city.

Do you fear what might happen there?

Mount Rainier is yes.

It's close to Seattle,

but it's also much closer to a

lot of other good communities in

the southern Puget Sound area.

Those are the communities

that are most at risk,

and they're the ones that we work

with to the greatest extent,

a lot of the terrain in the valleys

of southern Puget Sound area

were once part of Puget Sound.

They were filled in in part by these

large lahar over over the millennia.

These these areas were filled in,

so we're very familiar with

the hazards to that area.

That's what we're most concerned with.

Seattle itself, Tacoma.

Both cities are up on the hill.

The ports of those cities are both at risk,

and of course we do work with King County

and the people in the City of Seattle,

but it's mostly, you know,

the people in Puyallup Valley of the

city of Orting and Puyallup Sumner.

All good folks who have

really taken this to heart.

You know, we went in there in 1993.

And we talked to there, it wasn't me.

I wasn't involved at the time,

but some of my colleagues eadwulf in

and Steve Brantley and others went

to the community and said, you know?

You have a problem here.

Public officials.

We have this threat from Mount Rainier.

Yeah, I know you see it.

I know it's on your city emblem,

but it's also a threat because

mud could come down here and

very this this entire area.

And to their credit,

they have taken it to heart and

made that that threat apart of

their their school learning.

Wording in Puyallup both have evacuation

drills and there's going to be a very large,

larger evacuation drill next year,


And they they have accepted

that they have this threat,

and there's no more lahar

ready city then then.

Well, then, perhaps you relevant wording.

OK, one other questions.

There were follow up Quick's all

the way South to Mammoth Mountain.

My husband I were honeymooning in

you Semite at the time were their

fears that other mountains would

explode or erupt at that time.

There were earthquakes at Mammoth Mountain.

There were earthquakes at Mount Hood.

Also and so. I don't I.

I think it was very tempting for

people to make a connection.

I'm not sure that any physical

connection ever has been drawn.

There may be some that I'm

not that I'm not aware of,

but yes, we were very concerned.

And feeling on pins and needles because.

We had a lot of people,

a lot of emergency managers

and members of the public who

were not at that time ready to

deal with volcanic eruption.

That mammoth lovely isn't.

It was just down there last week.

Yeah, I I haven't been to mammoth in years.

I need to. Get out of the pandemic

mode and go traveling again.

I give people a couple more minutes.

We don't have any questions

in the queue at the moment.

I'll give people a minute or so

if they have any last minute

questions they want to ask.

I will remind the audience that

next month's lecture will be on

July 22nd at 7:00 PM on our speaker

will be Amy Yakel who will be

talking about endangered species.

I will also remind everyone that these

lectures are archived an if you want

to go back and watch this one or the

the talk about Mount Pinatubo or any other.

Lectures that we have there are

of the all available to watch.

So. Come.

Please go to www.usps.giovislashpls

and check the archived.


OK, couple more questions.

One is what happened at Guadalupe

after the 77,000 person evacuation.

Was there an eruption?

Oh, good question. I'd have to

go back and look at it with the.

There was not an eruption

that kept people evacuated.

You people, basically, you know,

decided that they had to go back.

But what precipitated that was that

people thought they saw volcanic

glass within a rock sample,

which could indicate maybe

some higher exclusivity.

I had to go back and look,

but I don't think there was sufficient

activity that warranted you know 77.

But if it had been a more explosive eruption

then it would have been highly warranted

so people are doing a little bit of

historical going back and rethinking it all.

Little saying. Well,

maybe it wasn't completely for not.

And it could have been worse.

And then of course sometimes that's a

reason enough in itself to evacuate people,

but certainly no massive eruption.

But I just can't remember the

exact extent of what did happen.

OK, the other question is this the.

Politicalization of science

concern you about preparedness.

Is what is the now the

political politicalization?

Sorry I couldn't get my

mouth around that one.

There's a concern, me.

Oh, of course. But at the same time.

Yeah, people are, you know,

think freely and probably offer human time.

Science has not been accepted right away and.

This in many cases they've been.

Thought of, as you know, being.

Yeah, not nothing accurate in their

in their predictions and such.

So I think we just have to look

at it that way and I I'm actually

amazed to look at my scientific

colleagues and look at their mean.

Book analogy as well as in

Inglese theology and people.

Really, you know they keep their

their their nose to the grindstone

and their shoulder to the wheel and

they really don't let the political

winds influence them too much.

They just do what they have to do.

And if you know scientists,

you might understand that they had

that capability to be very focused,

and to not let the winds of

political change in political

politicization influence them overly.

They stick to their work.

Most assuredly.

Feed up follow up questions from the

woman who asked about Mammoth Mountain.

If she said there were slides and you

Semite valley in the trails were closed,

it was rather exciting to be on that,

say the least.

And yeah,

slides happen in you Semite all the time.

So it's.

Something I couldn't believe

it pretty pretty regularly.

In fact,

we have a public lecture

about rockslides in Yosemite.

You can go back and watch so interesting.

I bet that was very exciting and it.

You had a chance to to witness

some of the the really dynamic

processes that happen in in,

you know, on Earth,

that's John Mirror would tell you

that that was a good thing, right?


he will add.

Say. Sorry there bunch of question.

I was trying to go through and

see if there's anything any kind

of common themes here. Uhm?

Wants to know if size if Mamma

theory is still seismically active?

Can the mammoth area and is

it still seismically active?

OK, well that's not my area of expertise,

but I do know that earthquakes

you know do happen there and there

have been some fairly large ones.

I I would suggest that you go

to the website for the USGS.

California Volcano Observatory calvillo.

If you don't just do a, uh,

you know a browse on USGS Mammoth Lakes,

CA volcano preservatory.

You know all those events are listed,

and certainly many things that.

That are not in everyones

memory all the time,

but they are interesting nonetheless.


Somebody's asking if they think

their Mount Saint Helens will

erupt anytime in the next 10 years.

I'm not going to place a bet on 10 years,

but one thing that's been noticed is that

when one of the volcanoes is on a roll,

it it we can say with some degree of reason,

you know that it's most likely that

it will be the next one to erupt.

And so that certainly is a possibility.

There are different points of view on this,

and people say yes,

that could happen in other people.

Say, well maybe we don't have

the magma below now there.

Maybe there's evidence that there's not

sufficient magma beneath in the magma

chamber to cause trouble there and.

So you know we're just gonna

have to wait and see.

That's one of the interesting

things about the local nology.

You can't always experiment,

but you have to just observe and being

able to be an intelligent observer and so

that is our mode of operation in terms

of thinking about long term forecast.

Can couple more questions of one was?

What kind of debate was going on in

9th USGS in 1980 about the probability

of lahars versus quieter lava flows?

Well, that's a good question and

I'm not sure if I had the answer,

but I think that overall and I don't

know if it's somebody in the know who's

asking that question and certainly lava

flows are better known than lahars.

Uh. There was a lot of debate as to.

What might happen with it with the

bulge and there were some theories

that have been put out there.

There was just a lot of debate

going on overall, remember that we

had a group of stratigraphy hers.

Looking at the layers of previous eruptions,

we had people working with

quieter volcanoes in Hawaii.

We had people who were.

A landslide specialist,

will you know we didn't have people with

a lot of just full bodied experience,

so I can't tell you what people

were thinking in terms of that man.

Maybe they can.

But lahars are lesser known,

but probably in the end. Armor.

Destructive the lava flows

at Mount Saint Helens anyway.

Right, OK, couple more questions I think.

Will close. Call it in evening.

Have their been?

What are what have subsequent slope

failures in Mount Saint Helens look like?

Does lahar leftover material

remain highly mobile?

Good question, you know that that

that's a very relevant question too,

because just a few weeks ago we were

looking at the webcam that is set

up at Johnston Ridge Observatory,

which is that my background

and here in the picture,

and Kurt Spicer said,

you know there has been a huge slump

that happened and we lost a lot of

activity down into the total river,

so he and others were going to watch

and see if it made its way downstream.

But yeah, some of it is is

saturated and in others is not.

You know there's a lot of

porous rock there too,

so maybe not a lot of water

sitting at the surface.

And of course,

we're also always looking at the

external slopes of Mount Saint

Helens via our our GPS units as well.

We do not see any kind of slumping

happening of the volcanic

edifice edifice itself.

OK, one other question and we can maybe

close it as you started your career,

it says as a glitchy ologist.

How excited are you with the how the.

Crater Glacier has been doing

in this formation and.

Sustainment. Oh go Crater Glacier.


this little this little glacier

has real and it was.

It was born in under very

fortunate circumstances.

Pretty much all the glaciers of

the western United States are in

recession and are thinning right now.

But created glacier is that exception

where it was when I was born

in a volcanic crater due to the

avalanching of ice of snow and of rock

creating a very rock rich glacier.

And not only that,

but it was formed in the shadow of

those of that horseshoe shaped crater.

And so it just.

Picked up a lot of thickness

you got became very thick.

We wondered what was going to happen in 19.

Excuse me in 2004 with the

eruption we thought,

well here it was,

so it was so amazing to fly around in

helicopter and to see this spine of

fresh lava Dome rock piercing through

the ice and we were a little bit aghast.

At least those of us with with

the glacier affinity's Ann,

is that lava done grew and grew and grew?

We watched the glacier respond where?

You know it just didn't melt away.

I was only like about 5-6 percent of the

glacier was melted during the 2480 eruption,

but instead it just picked itself

up Anet Boogie, DUP those side

inner sidewalls of the creator,

if buckled up there an is rigid

ice and then it got high enough.

It was very thick so that it made it's

it's been making a fast zoom down to the.

To the north and alpha the creator breach,

but it's getting pretty

adventurous and the pretty spunky,

and it's it's moved out onto the

sunny plain outside of the breach,

amounting Helen.

So with that kind of behavior we don't know.

You know what, how long it's going to that,

how long that advances going to last.

I think advance itself is

actually pretty much you know,

slowed to a halt will have to look

at the latest numbers on that so,

but yes,

it's pretty exciting to if

you watching Crater Glacier.


thank you again Caroline for your

talk today and for answering all

the questions from our audience

and also thank you to all for

all of you joining us today.

This lecture will be available

later for on demand viewing at our

website at www.usgs.giovi slash POS

and we hope to see you can next

month on July 22nd for our talk of

an endangered species by Amy Akal.

Have a good evening everyone.